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	<title>Comments on: heteronormative privileged white whining</title>
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	<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/</link>
	<description>Just another Janesguide.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Allison Moon</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3389</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison Moon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 00:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3389</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Dee. 

I actually have a lot of constructive feedback about accessibility that I&#039;d love to offer you guys.  I didn&#039;t, however, ever get a survey.  I&#039;ll email you and Tess later about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Dee. </p>
<p>I actually have a lot of constructive feedback about accessibility that I&#8217;d love to offer you guys.  I didn&#8217;t, however, ever get a survey.  I&#8217;ll email you and Tess later about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dee Dennis</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3384</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 12:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3384</guid>
		<description>@Allison, I agree with you about the tone that was set at the opening and I wish it had not been.   As an organizer I know I can&#039;t please everyone and there will always be comments.  It is one of the reasons we sent out the survey after the conference to have that important feedback from our presenters and attendees.

The point I was trying to make in my comment is that I think the check your privilege is thrown around at times without the person doing it knowing full details and IMO it becomes more of a buzz word than anything concrete.   I&#039;m all for calling things out that are wrong (done it many times) but I also think that at the same time the positive should be acknowledged and addressed.  Metis&#039;s comment is a perfect example of it.  It is one thing to say check your privilege because these are high end toy mfgs but one needs to also look at the work and changes Metis has made within the industry to bring safer and better quality products to the public.   

I would also like to see those calling out ASL&#039;s or POC offer solutions.  It is very easy for us all to say check your privilege, this is wrong or this needs to change but for me personally the more important aspect is offering solutions of how to make those changes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Allison, I agree with you about the tone that was set at the opening and I wish it had not been.   As an organizer I know I can&#8217;t please everyone and there will always be comments.  It is one of the reasons we sent out the survey after the conference to have that important feedback from our presenters and attendees.</p>
<p>The point I was trying to make in my comment is that I think the check your privilege is thrown around at times without the person doing it knowing full details and IMO it becomes more of a buzz word than anything concrete.   I&#8217;m all for calling things out that are wrong (done it many times) but I also think that at the same time the positive should be acknowledged and addressed.  Metis&#8217;s comment is a perfect example of it.  It is one thing to say check your privilege because these are high end toy mfgs but one needs to also look at the work and changes Metis has made within the industry to bring safer and better quality products to the public.   </p>
<p>I would also like to see those calling out ASL&#8217;s or POC offer solutions.  It is very easy for us all to say check your privilege, this is wrong or this needs to change but for me personally the more important aspect is offering solutions of how to make those changes.</p>
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		<title>By: Allison Moon</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3380</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison Moon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 04:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3380</guid>
		<description>I agree with what seems to be the point of some commenters above that it&#039;s the &lt;i&gt;tone&lt;/I&gt; not the call out that has some people riled up.  For all my privilege-naming tendencies, I did get a bit ruffled when Audacia Ray called out the privilege of the opening session, not because she *did* but her tone certainly felt condescending to me.  This tone may have continued on such that people who felt affronted on Friday night continued to feel ever more so as the weekend continued.  
That said, I second everything Garnet Joyce is saying. We need to check ourselves out of &lt;i&gt;respect&lt;/i&gt; not shame. It&#039;s what keeps us relevant, welcoming, and powerful.

Dee, I understand you may be feeling defensive that people are calling out what they see as oversights without giving kudos to the successes. I get that as an organizer you&#039;re constantly dealing with critiques- that goes with the job description. 

I used disability as an example not because of any specific mishandlings, but because it&#039;s a good example of the need for vigilance despite the often invisibility of such populations.  

I would hope that you would treat these tweets and comments not as shaming finger wagging, but as you would complaints about a crappy hotel choice or A/V problems (for purely hypothetical examples): an opportunity to address concerns from your attendees. People are calling out issues with ASL or POCs on the plenary because they care about inviting these people to the table; they want to see MOMENTUM thrive.  These are the ways we help make that happen as activists- we point to the weak spots on the chain and ask for help reinforcing them. Some may be crasser than others in pointing this out, but complaining that we *are* pointing these things out doesn&#039;t fix anything.  

Like Metis said above, &quot;This is how we fight inequity; we educate and we demand standards be met.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what seems to be the point of some commenters above that it&#8217;s the <i>tone</i> not the call out that has some people riled up.  For all my privilege-naming tendencies, I did get a bit ruffled when Audacia Ray called out the privilege of the opening session, not because she *did* but her tone certainly felt condescending to me.  This tone may have continued on such that people who felt affronted on Friday night continued to feel ever more so as the weekend continued.<br />
That said, I second everything Garnet Joyce is saying. We need to check ourselves out of <i>respect</i> not shame. It&#8217;s what keeps us relevant, welcoming, and powerful.</p>
<p>Dee, I understand you may be feeling defensive that people are calling out what they see as oversights without giving kudos to the successes. I get that as an organizer you&#8217;re constantly dealing with critiques- that goes with the job description. </p>
<p>I used disability as an example not because of any specific mishandlings, but because it&#8217;s a good example of the need for vigilance despite the often invisibility of such populations.  </p>
<p>I would hope that you would treat these tweets and comments not as shaming finger wagging, but as you would complaints about a crappy hotel choice or A/V problems (for purely hypothetical examples): an opportunity to address concerns from your attendees. People are calling out issues with ASL or POCs on the plenary because they care about inviting these people to the table; they want to see MOMENTUM thrive.  These are the ways we help make that happen as activists- we point to the weak spots on the chain and ask for help reinforcing them. Some may be crasser than others in pointing this out, but complaining that we *are* pointing these things out doesn&#8217;t fix anything.  </p>
<p>Like Metis said above, &#8220;This is how we fight inequity; we educate and we demand standards be met.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Metis</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3379</link>
		<dc:creator>Metis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 02:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3379</guid>
		<description>About to get myself in trouble here but... 

Thank you Jane for expressing what quite a few of us felt. It wasn&#039;t that a question of privilege was mentioned during a session... it was that felt like it was over used and abused more to the point of nuisance and confrontation than a gentle nudge to be grateful for what you have created, where you sit and to be conscious of what you can do for others that aren&#039;t in a like situation.

Being on the toy panel with that last &quot;privilege check&quot; tag at the end, it felt derisive, not constructive in the least. It was definitely felt like it was said for confrontation, yet not really well communicated. You can say those things, mention how costly our products may seem (I brought cost conscious silicone to the market in my attempt to mainstream it 14 yrs ago but I realize it’s still out of reach for many), how luxury items are created and marketed towards those of privilege and ask how we felt about that, or what we as companies did to reach out to those less fortunate- but that wasn&#039;t was said. My eyes, unfortunately rolled when I heard the comment. The woman who said it seemed to have turned our messages off, and we in turn were turned off by hers. It was unfortunate. 

After the seminar I thought of a much better response. I thought of the question in terms of material and design safety. I think the fact that we bring better materials and form factors that work, to the marketplace raises the level of quality of the whole market. The fact that I&#039;ve harped and fought the print media that covered toys about phthalates and suffered both stores and medias wrath and for a while, felt ostracized from a good many retailers in the marketplace, etc. was a price worth paying. I keep the PDF of the Danish EPA&#039;s study on sex toys available and accessible to everyone on my website- the only study I know that did a major study of what sex toys are made of and some of it we should all be ashamed of. It really doesn’t matter about your privilege if the companies making toys are killing you with exposure to cadmium.  

This is how we fight inequity; we educate and we demand standards be met. My husband has his undergraduate degree in art and he puts it this way: When everything is BOLD the unbold becomes the bold. You have to use these powerful tools carefully for effect or nothing will be affected by them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About to get myself in trouble here but&#8230; </p>
<p>Thank you Jane for expressing what quite a few of us felt. It wasn&#8217;t that a question of privilege was mentioned during a session&#8230; it was that felt like it was over used and abused more to the point of nuisance and confrontation than a gentle nudge to be grateful for what you have created, where you sit and to be conscious of what you can do for others that aren&#8217;t in a like situation.</p>
<p>Being on the toy panel with that last &#8220;privilege check&#8221; tag at the end, it felt derisive, not constructive in the least. It was definitely felt like it was said for confrontation, yet not really well communicated. You can say those things, mention how costly our products may seem (I brought cost conscious silicone to the market in my attempt to mainstream it 14 yrs ago but I realize it’s still out of reach for many), how luxury items are created and marketed towards those of privilege and ask how we felt about that, or what we as companies did to reach out to those less fortunate- but that wasn&#8217;t was said. My eyes, unfortunately rolled when I heard the comment. The woman who said it seemed to have turned our messages off, and we in turn were turned off by hers. It was unfortunate. </p>
<p>After the seminar I thought of a much better response. I thought of the question in terms of material and design safety. I think the fact that we bring better materials and form factors that work, to the marketplace raises the level of quality of the whole market. The fact that I&#8217;ve harped and fought the print media that covered toys about phthalates and suffered both stores and medias wrath and for a while, felt ostracized from a good many retailers in the marketplace, etc. was a price worth paying. I keep the PDF of the Danish EPA&#8217;s study on sex toys available and accessible to everyone on my website- the only study I know that did a major study of what sex toys are made of and some of it we should all be ashamed of. It really doesn’t matter about your privilege if the companies making toys are killing you with exposure to cadmium.  </p>
<p>This is how we fight inequity; we educate and we demand standards be met. My husband has his undergraduate degree in art and he puts it this way: When everything is BOLD the unbold becomes the bold. You have to use these powerful tools carefully for effect or nothing will be affected by them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosie q</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3378</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosie q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 00:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3378</guid>
		<description>I want to second what Garnet said so beautifully. Shaming=wrong. Privelage should be recognized, not shamed. And my experience at mcon was also, thankfully, positive. I&#039;m sorry if it wasn&#039;t that way for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to second what Garnet said so beautifully. Shaming=wrong. Privelage should be recognized, not shamed. And my experience at mcon was also, thankfully, positive. I&#8217;m sorry if it wasn&#8217;t that way for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Garnet Joyce</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3377</link>
		<dc:creator>Garnet Joyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 23:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3377</guid>
		<description>Oh god no, that tshirt definitely crossed a line. I totally agree with you that that was rape-y. 

Like I said, I attended different sessions than you did. So I did not witness all that you witnessed. And you may have very well felt shamed by some people and I would never try to discount your feelings. 

In general I try to assume people mean the best and when privilege came up in the talks I was at I felt like they meant well and that in every session we should be addressing how our viewpoints are privileged. It&#039;s tough work, but we have to do it if we really believe everyone should have a voice. Totally not saying that was your experience. But I think it&#039;s important that we don&#039;t completely negate the importance of addressing our privileges even in this context. 

I just always worry about knee-jerk reactions of &quot;it&#039;s not my fault&quot; because it reminds me of many other oppression issues. So I guess I just wanted to voice that I appreciated that people were asking others to address their privileges. And that I had a different experience. 

Also, I would make so much more sense right now if I hadn&#039;t caught the flu at Momentum. My head is going *woosh woosh woosh*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh god no, that tshirt definitely crossed a line. I totally agree with you that that was rape-y. </p>
<p>Like I said, I attended different sessions than you did. So I did not witness all that you witnessed. And you may have very well felt shamed by some people and I would never try to discount your feelings. </p>
<p>In general I try to assume people mean the best and when privilege came up in the talks I was at I felt like they meant well and that in every session we should be addressing how our viewpoints are privileged. It&#8217;s tough work, but we have to do it if we really believe everyone should have a voice. Totally not saying that was your experience. But I think it&#8217;s important that we don&#8217;t completely negate the importance of addressing our privileges even in this context. </p>
<p>I just always worry about knee-jerk reactions of &#8220;it&#8217;s not my fault&#8221; because it reminds me of many other oppression issues. So I guess I just wanted to voice that I appreciated that people were asking others to address their privileges. And that I had a different experience. </p>
<p>Also, I would make so much more sense right now if I hadn&#8217;t caught the flu at Momentum. My head is going *woosh woosh woosh*.</p>
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		<title>By: jane</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3376</link>
		<dc:creator>jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 23:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3376</guid>
		<description>@garnet So I&#039;m just curious then, what was your take on the tshirt I referenced? If the intent is not to use &quot;privilege&quot; as a pejorative?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@garnet So I&#8217;m just curious then, what was your take on the tshirt I referenced? If the intent is not to use &#8220;privilege&#8221; as a pejorative?</p>
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		<title>By: Garnet Joyce</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3375</link>
		<dc:creator>Garnet Joyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 23:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3375</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t feel shamed by having people point out that we needed to check our privilege. But part of that is my huge amount of privilege for having majored in gender and women&#039;s studies which tackles these exact issues. 

I think Logan Levkoff did an amazing job of being upfront with her privileges and how they helped her get ahead in the world. She&#039;s not saying &quot;I can do this and so can anyone else.&quot; She&#039;s saying &quot;Because of the way I look I am accepted in a lot more places and that&#039;s part of why I do the work I do.&quot;

I guess what I&#039;m saying is that I saw it as less of an attack and more of a reminder to think of those people who should have input on the issue but don&#039;t and how can we go about getting their input.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t feel shamed by having people point out that we needed to check our privilege. But part of that is my huge amount of privilege for having majored in gender and women&#8217;s studies which tackles these exact issues. </p>
<p>I think Logan Levkoff did an amazing job of being upfront with her privileges and how they helped her get ahead in the world. She&#8217;s not saying &#8220;I can do this and so can anyone else.&#8221; She&#8217;s saying &#8220;Because of the way I look I am accepted in a lot more places and that&#8217;s part of why I do the work I do.&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m saying is that I saw it as less of an attack and more of a reminder to think of those people who should have input on the issue but don&#8217;t and how can we go about getting their input.</p>
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		<title>By: jane</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3374</link>
		<dc:creator>jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 22:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3374</guid>
		<description>Garnet, I am just wondering what exactly I have to do to recognize my privilege. I AM recognizing that I have it, I am just refusing to be shamed for having it. 

And for the record, as I mentioned when I was briefly in Rachel Venning&#039;s awesome workshop, my own favorite sextoy is a $10 pocket rocket, and somehow I manage to muddle through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garnet, I am just wondering what exactly I have to do to recognize my privilege. I AM recognizing that I have it, I am just refusing to be shamed for having it. </p>
<p>And for the record, as I mentioned when I was briefly in Rachel Venning&#8217;s awesome workshop, my own favorite sextoy is a $10 pocket rocket, and somehow I manage to muddle through.</p>
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		<title>By: Dee Dennis</title>
		<link>http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/2012/04/06/heteronormative-privileged-white-whining/comment-page-1/#comment-3373</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 22:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://janesguide.com/wpmu/janesays/?p=590#comment-3373</guid>
		<description>@Allison - I saw the tweets about lack of ASL at MOMENTUM and we actually had two people lined up to do the opening and closing who fell through at the last minute. I relayed this info to the person who requested it and asked how to avoid that next year.  Due to the content of our conference we can&#039;t have just anyone do those sessions.

What I did not see was one person mention or tweet about the personal guides we had for our two blind attendees.  They each had someone throughout the conference including Saturday evening entertainment.   I think it is fine to point out something someone maybe doesn&#039;t see or understand but what I don&#039;t think is fine is to just assume something based on an observation.   I am the parent of a disabled child and I think the experiences and battles we have faced because of that gives me the ability to understand and see things others always don&#039;t and I try to use that when planning my events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Allison &#8211; I saw the tweets about lack of ASL at MOMENTUM and we actually had two people lined up to do the opening and closing who fell through at the last minute. I relayed this info to the person who requested it and asked how to avoid that next year.  Due to the content of our conference we can&#8217;t have just anyone do those sessions.</p>
<p>What I did not see was one person mention or tweet about the personal guides we had for our two blind attendees.  They each had someone throughout the conference including Saturday evening entertainment.   I think it is fine to point out something someone maybe doesn&#8217;t see or understand but what I don&#8217;t think is fine is to just assume something based on an observation.   I am the parent of a disabled child and I think the experiences and battles we have faced because of that gives me the ability to understand and see things others always don&#8217;t and I try to use that when planning my events.</p>
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